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Notes

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Note    H671         Index

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from National Archives, London - Edward Mackay-WO12 7272.jpg
Embarked for England month of October (Oct1 to Oct 31) - died at Sea 2 February 1840

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Email from Pete Lawton via B-G Forums hosted by Parish Chest Ltd dated 19MAY2009; subject "63rd Regiment"

Hi
My name is Pete Lawton. You may have seen a post from myself regarding a John Cassidy of the 63rd. He was definitely in the 63rd in the 1850's and may possibly have been in the garrison in Van Dieman's land. The reason I'm contacting you is that I will be going to Kew at some stage over the next couple of months (don't know when yet) and wondered if I could be of help. At this stage I have to say it will be my first visit and being a Kew virgin, do not know how successful I will be in finding stuff. However, if you haven't alredy had any similar offers and would like to send me the salient facts I'll be happy to have a go for you. My email is: pete@wincobank1.plus.com
kind regards Pete
--------------------------------------------------
Email to Pete Lawton dated 19MAY2009

Hi Pete,

Once again, thank you so much for your kind offer

I hesitated to give you all the information, fearing it would overwhelm you. But, in the end, I decided to go the "whole hog" and give you everything so you have an idea of where the connection occured between my Sergeant and the regiment.

I have attached a Word 2003 document, which hopefully you will be able to open. It contains all the data I have, and my suppositions.

I would be grateful for anything you might be able to find about my Sgt Edward.

My Questions
a. Birth date of Sgt Edward Mackie (also spelling of his name in the records)
b. Enlistment date of Sgt Edward
c. Death record of Sgt Edward
d. Service Record of Sgt Edward
e. Any reference to death of wife ANN

Items C and D are the most important to me.

I do appreciate your offer, please let me know if there is any Australian research I can do for you?
--------------------------------------------------
Reply from Pete Lawton dated 20MAY2009
Hi Megan,
Thanks for the info, I'll do my best As I said before, I'm not sure of the exact date I'll be going down, but I'll try and make it fairly soon. As a matter of interest I don't know if you've seen:
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~garter1/surnames63rd.htm this page lists those of the 63rd who stayed and further down the page is a list of those on garrison duty - your Edward is the first listed under 'M'. The other pages have a load of info on the 63rd. Thanks for the offer of Aussie research. I suspect that the John Cassidy listed is just too early to be my John, however I do know that some other branches of the family did emigrate, so I may take you up on that.
Will be in touch
cheers
--------------------------------------------------

Email from Pete Lawton dated 2009-JUL-22, subject "More Mackay"

I've been to the Archives again and got a few more pieces for you on Edward.

Details are in the attached word doc.

I started looking from 1836 to find when he was lost at sea (more of which later) During this period he served in both Burma and India and in November 1837 he was reduced from Sergeant to Private There is no reason for this in the muster roll, no regimental court marshal, no period of confinement in jail, no explanation at all.
(when my bloke was reduced from corporal there were lisitngs of court marshal and time under arrest). It looks like three sergeants were reduced back to private at he same time, I'll try to see if the others were under arrest next time.
So, Private Mackey continued to move around Burma and India until February 1840, when he embarked for England.....

Sorry to leave it at the 'see next week's exciting episode' stage but it was the last muster roll I had booked out. I'm presuming the next one will have the death listed. The really annoying thing is that the next muster roll was one I had out earlier, as it is the first one in which John Cassidy appears (enlisted 27 March 1840), but I didn't know I'd be looking for a Private Mackay in it. Really strange though that the same roll has Edward's last entry and John's first.

As far as the place names go Mergui is in Burma, located in the extreme south of the country on the coast of an island on the Andaman Sea. Moulmein is the main trading center and seaport in south-eastern Burma.

Poonamallee is a town in Thiruvallur district in the Indian state of Tamil Nadu. All had substantial British army barracks in the period.

I can't find any reference to Arnee (the entry in the muster roll is indistinct, but should be in Burma)

I'll find out about his pre 1836 career and what happened in 1840 next time (may be a while though).

Once again sorry to leave you up in the air, will try to rectify as soon as I can.

all the best from your semi successful sleuth

--------------------------------------------------

Email from Pete Lawton dated 2010-JUL-05 subject "Mackay and Bird at the Archives"

Hi Megan,

Have been down to the Archives again and found out a bit more for you. Most of it really just puts detail on what you already knew.

Edward Mackay did indeed die in transit to England; this was on the 2nd February 1840. No details of what killed him, but I believe he was on board a ship called ‘Diamond’, which incidentally, was the ship John Cassidy went out to India on (very possibly on its return trip).

I’ve attached photos of:

Muster Roll WO12/7272: (runs from April 1839 to March 1841)

WO12/7272 shows him ‘Embarked for England’ in October and then ‘Died at Sea 2nd February’ (oddly this is in the November 1840 column - presumably when they arrived in England)

WO12/7272 (2) is at the end of the quarter section of the Muster Roll, here there is a separate listing for new recruits and those who have left the regiment - including those died. This has details of when he enlisted (8 September 1819); where he was born (looks like Currins - Currin is a civil parish in C. Monaghan - ref. www.irelandgenweb.com/monaghan/ ) and his job on enlistment (labourer).

WO25/1947 is the entry in the 63rd Casualty Return (1838 - 1842) - reiterates what was in WO12/7272. Unfortunately there are no other associated documents in the Casualty Roll (some men have details of will and possessions attached, but Edward isn’t one of them - bugger ).

WO25/1947 (2) is just a close up of this.

Next time I’ll have a scout round to see if there is any more to be found, but I think that may be it. I asked about records of his family and they may be in one of the WO25 embarkation and disembarkation documents - will check these.

As for James Bird he did die at Guznee - but this was 1839, not 1837 as you thought. I couldn’t find him in the 1837 casualties, so I looked in the Muster Rolls and he was alive and well and on guard duty July/August 1837.
By the time I’d got him it was closing time (what is it with your relatives, they only leap out of the pages when the place is about to shut )

Anyway he’s in:

WO12/2046: Muster Roll for 2nd Foot (Queen's Royal) 1839 - 1840. He’s sick at Guznee in the July Muster and died in the August Muster (died on 31st July)
WO12/2046 (2) is at the end of the quarter section of the Muster and shows him just as ‘Died’, those either side of him are marked as ‘Died of Wounds’, so I’m assuming that he didn’t die of wounds from battle. I’ll go back and check out the WO25/1514 (2nd Casualty Return) next time, unfortunately when I looked at this earlier in the day I was looking at 1837, not 1839. I’ll also see if I can trace when he joined which may show where he enlisted/was born.

Anyway that’s it for now, will be in touch. As I say, this really just confirms what you know, but hope it’s of use.

--------------------------------------------------

Email reply to Pete Lawton dated 2010-JUL-05

Pete - I am bowled over by your generosity

Thank you so much for all the time and effort you have expended on my behalf

You are correct - most of this information I do already know, but what I have found out is
the ship DIAMOND, which I did know know
Currins - I DID know about Monaghan, but not Currins

Now - about Edward Mackey - I know that Edward was married to Ann. They had 3 daughters Mary Ann (sometimes Mary Jane), Sarah and Elizabeth (Elizabeth is my 2GGrandmother). What I know of (or have heard of) is that Ann died in or near and was buried at Fort George, Madras. The timing of the regiment shows that in 1838-9 they were sent from Madras to Burma, and as they returned in 1839, one ship ran aground and cholera broke out. Edward died. The 3 girls were sent back to Edward's place of enlistment - Ireland. I do not know if they were sent back to Currins exactly.

About - James Bird (born James Bird HILL to James Hill and Catherine Bird)- all I know is that his regiment was in Poona (now Pune) in 1837, and was reassigned to the Khyber Pass, in portions - I don't know about the ARmy so much, I would assume different regiments were moved around like chess pieces. The 1st Battle of Ghazni was fought in July 1839, and I have learned that James Bird died at the end of that battle, and it was assumed by the source that I learned from (sorry for the bad grammar ) that he either died of wounds or died of cholera/typhoid (ie disease not wounds). Wife Ann (nee Jarvis) and 4 surviving children returned to England.

So, the questions I would ask are:
Mackey - would children "inherit" anything if their parents died, and their father was in the military
Bird - Would Ann Bird/Hill "inherit" anything from her husband's death...

Thank you again for all you have done
--------------------------------------------------

Email reply from John Parker dated 2013-JUL-08, subject "Answers and comments re your questions"

Megan
I'll try to answer your questions by inserting them into your questions and italicised blue text like this line. Sorry, but the bullet numbering got out of whack, but it shouldn't be a problem for you.
Regards,
John Parker
[If when forwarding this email onto others, please remove my email address and use the BCC: option . Let's say "NO " to Spammers and viruses]

May I ask some questions to clarify what you've written?
And, please believe me, I am not trying to say I am right/you are right - just trying to clarify what I have....
Megan, I'm not so sure that small details were of any great interest to me given the time that has since passed... personally I just wanted to get onto paper what I knew at the time before it became a "lost cause". Also, at the time I wrote this in 2010 I did not know of all the online resources open to me at the time (I wish I had). So you probably know a lot more than I do.
I am focussing on Chapters 1 & 2.

Page vii - Acknowledgements - The date under your signature has updated itself upon my opening the chapter. What date did you publish under, please? 1-Apr-2010
Page 1-3 - Mackie-Comber - John Mackey's wife was Jane Graham bap 14 Mar 1761 Clones Monaghan - d abt 1821, daughter of Christopher Graham 1725-1761. Is this a question or an update of the info you gave me earlier on?
Page 1-3 - Mackie-Comber - Sgt Edward Mackie did die at sea on 02 Feb 1840, but on the way from Moulmein, Burma back to Regimental base in Fort St George, Madras (currently Chennai). Wife Ann died around the same time from Cholera. Believe both are buried in Fort St George. H C Wylly has written a very good History of the Manchester Regiment that describes the death of a Sergeant who I believe is Edward. You could well be right as to the location of their death. I did not pursue it because my focus was on their daughter Elizabeth who later married Ed Comber.
Page 1-4 - Mackie-Comber - I have almost the identical quotation in an email from CHERYL Mongan - is this the same person as your Chris Mongan? Probably, seeing how most of this info I received from you ... 8>)
Page 1-4 - Mackie-Comber - Edward Comber - I have found the Bounty Immigration record from NSW State Archives showing COMER, EDWARD and COMER, ANN arriving per Runnymede. Daughter Bridget born 1842 in Mudgee. Ann died 1850 in Gunnedah. Edward and Elizabeth Mackie married 1851. Edward married 1892 thirdly Elizabeth Wenton (m Joseph Freeman 1861). Very interesting, I'll make an update notation and pass it onto those who received a copy.
Page 1-4 - Mackie-Comber - Edward Comber - Edward died of Cerebral Hemorrhage and a leg ulcer (from his Death Cert) - do you have info about a Heart Attack? NO , at the time I never pursued it to this degree. Remember Edward Comber is not a link in my family tree and hence how he died is not going to affect the Hardy or Rowland families.
Page 1-5 - Mackie-Comber - Elizabeth Comber - who is LORNA MILLER? What book did she write? Is she by any chance my Aunt Lorna, daughter of Isabella Sarah Hardy? Do you have any correspondence from/to her that you could share? To answer you she was the daughter of Isabella and Harry Miller. My mother and her sister Kathleen, spoke often of Lorna Miller, but I never knew her, nor do I have any correspondence. I don't know of any book she might have written, but judging by Hertel's book she seems to have been a quite repository of information (some accurate and some hearsay (eg. endnote #12 on page 1-7)).
Page 1-5 - Mackie-Comber - Who was the Father - I have John Fitzsimmons born Leicester... John Fitzsimmons.
Page 1-6 - Mackie-Comber - Elizabeth Hannah Comber-Fitzsimmons - I have some references to James Clack being mayor of Oberon - do you have anything like that? others have also said that Nellie was born 1880 and adopted then - do you have any proof of her adoption and/or birth? I have Nellie's birth as 3-Mar-1889 (or thereabouts). If you can check her mother's death record with the NSWBDM then you could have a fair idea. Can't comment on James Clack being the Mayor of Oberon, but Oberon's local govt. records could verify it.
Page 1-6 - Mackie-Comber - Elizabeth Hannah Comber-Fitzsimmons - I have a possible third daughter Pricilla Ann Comber Fitzsimmons b 1884 - NSWBDMs show parents as John and Elizabeth - 3 years later 1887 Eliz marries Robert Hardy. Again, you could be right. At the time when writing this chapter I relied heavily on Hertel's book and your contributions as I was not overly interested in the details of those outside of my family tree.
Page 2-4 - Hardy - I have heard anecdotes from my Grandmother and Mother that Robert sold horses to the Army for the Boer War. Do you have any documentation supporting this? According to Hertel's book, this is true. In fact if you have access to her book there is a lot of interesting stuff on the Hardys, but you need to be somewhat circumspect because I think a lot of it is hand me down anecdotes which is prone to faulty memories, etc. A lot of this stuff is courtesy of Lorna Miller's contributions in Hertel's book.
Page 2-4 - Hardy - I have also heard that Robert was affected by the crash of the Australian Joint Stock Bank in April 1893 - have you heard that? No ... but from what I heard was that Robert Hardy Jr. was a bit of a gambler. He also entered into a speculative venture to extract tin from Tingha, NSW which came to nothing. I guess graziers do not always make good gamblers or good businessmen.
Page 2-4 - Hardy - Mary Dowling Minch & Joseph Minch. Joseph died from a fall from his horse in Lochinvar on 26 Oct 1855. Mary was delivered of a daughter, also Mary, on 25 March 1856. Daughter Mary married William Rigney and they had 2 children (as far as I have found to date). According to Lorna M. Joseph drowned while riding through a flooded Wirrah Creek in Cuttabri. His horse became entangled in a submerged tree in the swirling water and they were carried downstream.
Page 2-5 - Hardy - my Grandmother's anecdote was that Elizabeth Comber was working as the Housekeeper in the Hardy household because Mary Minch Hardy had had a poor set of births. Elizabeth Comber had 5 children with Robert all of whose Birth Certs show their surnames as COMBER not Hardy. Goings on while Mary Minch Hardy was still around I'm not so sure that was how it was ... yes I believe EC (and her two daughters) worked for the Minchins as a housekeeper (and nanny???). However, according to Hertels book ... Mary Hardy (nee Minchin) had a child from her first marriage before she married Robert, Mary fell ill with the birth of her 7th baby. EC had 10 children to look after
Page 2-5 - Hardy - Elizabeth Comber - father Edward born in Ireland.... Well according to Lorna Miller, Edward Comber was born 1820 in Spittlefields, Middlesex. His parents were Edward Comber and Margaret Sennet (nee Johnston) of Spittlefields, Middlesex. I would have imagined that Elizabeth Mackie's father was born in Ireland.
Page 2-5 - Hardy - Elizabeth Comber - William John Mackey - Comstock Lode, Nevada - Wikipedia has his name as John William Mackay, his parents living in Ireland and he born in Dublin. Nana Isabella always said that her Uncle was the finder of the Comstock Lode - have you any documentation/proof???/ I'd love to know Again it was Lorna Miller who put me onto this lead and I checked it out on the web ... the result is as per Appendix B (on page B-1) [read the disclaimers]. The name of Mackie and Mackay was constantly being interchanged. I guess it was a case of how you wanted to spell his surname ... Americans tended to spell English words and names phonetically and I suspect WJM probably didn't know (or cared) ... in those days the Irish tended to be somewhat illiterate in such details as spelling.
Page 2-6 - Hardy - Robert & Elizabeth - do you have a location/house number for "ROSE COTTAGE" in Maitland Street? I know the address of where Elizabeth Hardy (nee Comber) lived ... 219 Maitland Street Narrabri (see reference to it on page 3-5). The Rose Cottage was supposed to be next to it. However, both buildings were washed away by a flood. Today there is another house at this street address (I suspect that the house numbers were changed sometime after the flood). The actual location is said to be close to where the Wee Waa road crossed Doctors Creek.
Page 2-6 - Hardy - Endnotes - point 6 - Molleeview and Hopeville - do you have a map of their locations? This is one of the questions I have posed to Helen in NFHS and am STILL awaiting a response Unfortunately I have no idea except there were supposedly on opposite sides of the Namoi River. Given the fact that Hardy lost both properties before Alice Hardy married Fred Rowland in 1912, it probably became a source of embarrassment to the family. If you feel it is important why not try the Narrabri Council records ... ratepayers, etc.
Sidenote - did you know that Elizabeth Comber Hardy's handwriting and my Grandmother's handwriting are almost identical? Spiky and square If EH taught your grandmother at home then maybe she picked up her style as the "correct" one.
Page 2-12 - Hardy Photos- the mystery letter from the Nephew - do you have any possible candidates for the author?
To be honest I have never bothered to pursue finding out. He would have to have been a son of one of Robert's 10 siblings ... of which 8 were boys and 2 girls ... take your pick
-------------------------------------------------

Reply to John Parker dated 2013-JUL-08
Hi John - thank you for your responses.

You HAVE clarified some of the stuff I have, and confirmed the origin of some of the anecdotes/facts.

Lorna Miller was my Mother's sister, daughter of Isabella.
Lorna lived most of her life with Nana Bella and so has the same information I have through my mum. I was interested in the term "book" as I was unaware of any such document, but, of course, aware of familial anecdotes. I do think you are correct in that Lorna, Uncle Denis Miller and Mum all three responded to Emily Hertel to notify of updates and corrections to the booklet data. That is no doubt where the "book" reference arose.

As is usual with Genealogy, while reading your book, another genealogist (Melinda) contacted me and confirmed that John William Mackey was the son of Edward and Ann Mackey and sibling to Elizabeth, Mary Jane (Melinda's direct ancestor) & Sarah. So I have his name around the wrong way (I have William John). Now John's name matches the Wikipedia entry Will need further research into this, but if it is a family anecdote, there is usually some sort of relationship to the anecdote and the family 50% of the time.

As a last point - I would tend towards the information about Edward Comber's origin using the Bounty Immigration information rather than the Spitalfields connection. I do not belive any research was done re the Spitalfields Edward, though I guess there is always a possibility

====================================================================
2016-01-01 - Posting by Megan on British Genealogy forum, and response by lexiabain

Title: Re: 63rd Regiment of Foot (1830, Tasmania) ­ Sgt MACKIE/MACKEY
Post by: lexiabain on 2015­10­06, 14:16:47
This is a message is primarily for 'Megan in Australia'

This is a message is primarily for 'Megan in Australia'.
Are you still searching for resources on the 63rd regiment's deployment to Tasmania? If so, are you near a
State Library or the National Library (NLA)? If you can go there and have lots of time :­\ , the microfilms
of the War Office (AJCP) are worth the effort and eye strain to trawl.
I have an interest in the 63rd regiment c1823­1834, when it was in Ireland/ England/ Portugal and then
Tasmania. I too have looked at Macquarie Harbour, but transcribed information relevant to a Private
Joseph McMahon ­ the sergeants are on another page and clearly marked as such. The filmed pages I refer
to relate to (pay) musters, so you can most often read where the soldier was detached to.
There's also a book ['History of the Manchester Regiment', Wylly, HC (ed), London, Forster & Groom, 1923]
in NLA which you could get through inter­library loan ­ I recommend it, if you're interested in the period
before your sergeant got to Tasmania. The editor had little interest in the Tasmania deployment though.
There is also a lot of information about the Regiment's role in the so­called black or indigenous war of Oct
1830 ­ see also Trove* for that.
Did your sergeant get a pension (because of really long service or severe disability)? Try the Army
pensioners' files online at (UK) National Archives. Good information there if your sergeant was entitled and
the file itself has been filmed (I think you can pay for a copy or can access it on one of the subscription
sites).
On another thread about the British Army, someone stated the first and last entries for a soldier in the
regimental record are the best for genie­type information. The last worked for me (eg next of kin, birth
place, enlistment date), but I can't access the first from Australia because it wasn't part of the AJCP
filming.
Hope this helps
Lexia
* Trove is the NLA's fabulous and free historical Australian newspaper project.

A few more thoughts then on the films:
May I suggest some urgency? I went to the State Library of QLD on Sunday, and was told that some of the
films had degraded (in a toxic sense) and been withdrawn ­ so I can't continue searching until I go next to
the Mitchell or National libraries ­ hopefully they are still in service.
As for finding what you want on the films, first use the finding aid (it's online too, as well as being a
booklet in libraries) to check the War Office reel and piece number to start from. Forward though the reel
until you get to the correct piece number on the right side. Once you get there, it is less tiring if you skim
until you come to the page labelled 'sergeants'. There will be one or two pages per pay quarter. Read
across the page and it should tell you how much money per day, over what period (eg 90 days), whether
the soldier had earned a increase and the location of the soldier.
With respect to the private I am researching, I had a non­effective date, so I elected to research the last
film first (see my previous post about the genie­details I got by doing that). You will get that benefit too
once you can access the regimental record at the (UK) National Archives. There is a page or two at the end
of each quarter detailing soldiers who are non­effective, died, discharged, transferred. Such a shame your
sergeant survived Tasmania (and India?) only to die on the voyage back to Britain ­ but there might
therefore be information on him in the ship surgeon's log.
I assume your sergeant's children had relatives to take them in: lucky hmm. I am no expert on the subject
of British military pensions, but I believe the system supported the soldier himself not his family.
It is very tiring work ­ and from what library staff have told me, there are no plans to re­film. I wish you
luck in your search here and at Kew. If you do go to Kew, maybe a search will given you a physical
description ­ wouldn't that be something
Lexia

Thanks for your replies Ken. We are, I'm sure, all trying to help others, particularly when we are far away
from the repositories (as Cando and I are).
A regimental record would be any record created by officials about a regiment, or sent to someone in a
regiment and kept on an official file relating to a regiment etc. The quarterly returns (musters) are really
good genie­wise; and there's also the files on soldiers' physical appearance (WO25?) and those relating to
English and Irish military hospitals/ pension arrangements.
Isn't it great they weren't subject to a destruction order, or burnt in WWII. I am grateful for these types of
records, since the 'other­ranks' are usually not well covered in official records.
I am also trying to provide advice relevant to the place and time (the 63rd were in Australia from about
1827 to 1833). I can't assist with the particular sergeant, but I expect Cando will get to the Mitchell Library
(ie NSW State Library) before I do.
I'm quite disappointed that the relevant reels are 'missing' from the QLD State Library, and won't be
replaced, but I expect it's a matter of resourcing constraints.
Regards
Lexia

================================================================================

2017-05-13 - Posting to FIBIS regarding the Mackay girls

Hello List,

I am looking for any information about the MACKAY family (also known as MACKIE, MCKEE, MCKEY, MACKEY, MCGEE, etc.) who were residents of the Madras Female Orphan Asylum.

My 3rd Great Grandfather, Edward MACKAY bc1800 in Monaghan, in/around Aghabog, enlisted in the 63rd Regiment of Foot on 08 Sep 1819. Edward was stationed in Van Diemans Land (aka VDL, now Tasmania) around 1832. In 1834, the 63rd Regiment of Foot relocated to Fort St George, Madras (now Chennai). Edward was a Sergeant in the 63rd, and he and his wife, Ann (nee Taylor) and three daughters, Mary Jane, Sarah and Elizabeth, and possibly some sons, were located in Madras.

He had 3 known daughters with Ann: -
. Mary Jane (as MACKEY) b1827 in Glen, Cavan;
. Sarah (as MACKEY) bc1829 possibly VDL; and
. Elizabeth (as MACKAY) b1831 in VDL.
He had sons as well, but whether they accompanied the family to India, is unclear:-
. Francis (referenced as MACKEY and MACKIE)
. William (as MACKAY)
. John (as MACKAY)

Sadly, wife Ann died in Fort St George in 1836. According to the British Army Muster Books for the 63rd, Edward appeared as an active soldier up to December 1839, and also appeared to have left the army/regiment by February 1840. The 63rd Regiment Muster Books has an entry in October 1840 stating that Edward "Embarked for England", and the entry in November 1840 stated that Edward "Died at sea 2 February 1840".

It appears that the 3 girls (Mary Jane aged 12, Sarah aged 11 and Elizabeth aged 8) were then taken off the ship at the time of Edward's death, and were sent back to Madras, where they entered the Madras Female Orphan Asylum.

Anecdotal information has it that one of Edward's sisters and her husband were the caretakers at the Madras Female Orphan Asylum at the time the girls arrived there.

Mary Jane, the eldest sister, married Robert Devlin Smyth in Chatham, Kent on 5 May 1845, so there is a possiblity that all three, if not just Mary Jane, arrived back in the UK by that time.

Again, anecdotal information indicates that the girls would have been returned by the British Army to Edward's place of enlistment, which would be in Cavan/Monaghan in 1819.

Sarah and Elizabeth leave Ireland on the ship JOHN KNOX as Irish Famine Orphans (departing the Cootehill Workhouse), arriving in New South Wales on 29 April 1850.

I am looking for any information of the girls:
- in the Madras Female Orphan Asylum
- departing India/arriving UK

I'm also hoping to find the names of the caretakers at the Madras Female Orphan Asylum.

Any help/information gratefully accepted

Megan in Sydney

==================================================================================
Posting/Request to Tasmanian Library - 2017-05-13

I'm trying to find out information about my 3rd Great Grandfather who was stationed at Macquarie Harbour in/around 1832 as a member of the 63rd Regiment of Foot.

My 3rd Great Grandfather, Edward MACKAY bc1800 in Monaghan, in/around Aghabog, enlisted in the 63rd Regiment of Foot on 08 Sep 1819. Edward was stationed in Van Diemans Land (aka VDL, now Tasmania) around 1832. In 1834, the 63rd Regiment of Foot relocated to Fort St George, Madras (now Chennai). Edward was a Sergeant in the 63rd, and he and his wife, Ann (nee Taylor) and three daughters, Mary Jane, Sarah and Elizabeth, and possibly some sons, were located in Madras.

I know for a fact that daughter Elizabeth was born 7 March 1831 at Macquarie Harbour and christened/baptised 27 March 1831 in Hobart Town (Tasmanian Names Index - Baptism Register - Mackey, Elizabeth 1831- Image_207 - Register), though the name was spelled MACKEY rather than MACKAY, which was the spelling used in the British Army Muster Books for the 63rd Regiment of Foot.

It is thought that daughter Sarah was also born in VDL though I have not been successful in finding her information in the Tasmanian Names Index).

Questions:
1) is there any reason for Elizabeth to have been baptised in Hobart rather than at Macquarie Harbour?
2) if the family was in Hobart for the baptism, where would they have stayed?
3) is there any evidence for the family to have stayed in Hobart while Sergeant Edward Mackay was in Macquarie Harbour?
4) are there any other Tasmanian records I should search for evidence of daughter Sarah Mackay/Mackey?
​
Thank you
​
Megan in Sydney
===================================================================================

Noel Clark 7 July 2017 at 16:18
To: india@rootsweb.com
Cc: Megan Tilley
Megan (and other Listers FYI),

I think that the situation reached with the puzzle of Edward MACKEY and his
three daughters is closer to resolution, but is at a point where the next
step forward should be to access several files at The National Archives,
London. Unfortunately, these have not yet been digitised and are not
available on-line.

Through the kind actions of a fellow interested party we do now have the
actual embarkation date of Edward MACKEY. From WO25/1947, casualty returns
for the 1st Battalion, 63rd Regiment of Foot, for the period Oct 31st to Dec
30th 1839:

Regimental Number: 143
Rank: private
Name: Mackey Edward
Place of Birth: Currins
Trade on Enlistment: Labourer
Date of Enlistment: 1819
Embarked for Europe: 16th Dec 1839

A few pages further on

Regimental Number: 143
Rank: private
Place of Birth: Currins
Trade on Enlistment: Labourer
Date of Enlistment: 8th Sept 1819
"Died at sea" 2nd Feb 1840

In summary, Edward embarked to return home on 16th December 1839. Although
the port of embarkation is not stated, it is reasonable to assume that the
port was Madras. I looked at the shipping information for Madras in the
Asiatic Journal and Monthly Register, volume XXXI, for January-April 1840.
This shows two vessels on which Edward may have embarked.

The first is the "John Fleming." She had originally sailed from Calcutta on
3rd December 1839, and arrived in Madras via Bimlipatam and Vizagapatam on
12th December. She sailed from Madras for London on 17th December 1839. She
arrived in Table Bay, Cape of Good Hope on 27th January 1840, and sailed
from there on 3rd February. She called at St. Helena from where she sailed
on 15th February, and finally arrived in London on 8th April 1840.

The second is the "Atlas." She arrived at Madras from London and Madeira on
6th December, and sailed again for London on 3rd January 1840. She called at
the Cape (sailed on 26th February) and St. Helena (sailed 10th March), and
arrived at Gravesend 1st/2nd May 1840, and was in the West India Dock on 5th
May 1840.

My first choice is obviously the "John Fleming," based on Edward MACKEY's
embarkation date. However it's not impossible that he embarked on the
"Atlas" and that the vessel was delayed before sailing for some reason. If
Edward was on the "John Fleming" he died while the vessel was in Table Bay,
and if he was on the "Atlas" he died somewhere between Madras and the Cape.
Some support for the "Atlas" might be gleaned from a "Passengers Expected"
report that she was carrying "71 invalids, 6 women and 22 children" whereas
there is no such report for the "John Fleming."

The other general comments are maintained, based on "Occam's Razor."
- The girls were unlikely to have accompanied their father to Burma.
- The girls were probably in the Madras Female Orphanage from the death of
their mother until they embarked for England with their father.
- The ship carrying the Mackeys would not have put back to Madras after
Edward died and therefore the girls went on to England.
- Edward died whilst still a serving soldier. It is likely that the girls
will have been looked after the 63rd Regiment at Chatham until arrangements
were made to send the younger ones back to Ireland. There is no record of
them entering the Royal Military Asylum at Chelsea.
- Mary Jane MACKEY probably remained in Chatham although I can't readily
identify her in the 1841 census. Her future husband Robert Devlin Smyth
transferred to 62nd Regiment on 1st January 1845, and his autobiography
suggests that that is when he met Mary Jane at Chatham.

It is suggested that the following files should be checked at TNA. Reference
to Edward's return from Burma to Madras should be found as well as the
voyage from Madras to London.

WO25/1155 - Embarkation Returns 1839
WO25/1156 - Embarkation Returns 1840

WO25/1180 - Disembarkation Returns 1838/1839
WO25/1181 - Disembarkation Returns 1840/1841

WO25/2972 - Register of Deceased Soldiers 1824/1858

WO17/827 - Chatham Invalid Depot 1838-1841

It's been a very interesting project, and I've been made aware of many more
files at TNA that I had not previously known about. I hope that eventually
you will be able to confirm the name of the vessel on which Edward MACKEY
left Madras. Good luck

Noel
Marvellous Melbourne

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